Wednesday, March 12, 2008

Chart: Key West Real Estate Declines Worsening

According to a chart provided by Zillow.com, the Key West, Florida residential real estate market is still in a steep decline which has worsened since late-January. The chart, pictured above, details "Market Value Change" in residential real estate over the past 12 months for Key West and the 33040 zip code.

The Key West real estate market is still flooded with inventory (more is in development) and sales are slow. As of this morning, 1053 properties are listed in the residential category of the Key West MLS.

Also noteworthy is that minimum price-per-unit has fallen to levels not seen in many years. For example, currently listed are condos that are listed for as little at $159,000. Just a few years ago, you'd pay twice that, minimum, for anything residential.

Key West is not immune to the foreclosure wave hitting the United States. The nation's biggest mortgage lender, Countrywide, currently lists 8 Key West properties they now own, due to foreclosure, for sale on its website.
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44 comments:

Anonymous said...

It's a good time to buy property in Key West! Always has, always will be.

Anonymous said...

Once I zoomed in and saw $value numbers on the left hand side of the graph, I'd have to say that the values are actually pretty stable from around May 07 thru Feb 07....don't know how reliable the graph is for March since we're still mid-month. I don't put much stock in Zillow's "zestimates" at any rate...they have no data regarding renovations, etc. Their "comparables" for old town include sales at the Golf Club development. Not that I think the market is all rosy....just don't think variations from 545k to 560k are drastic.

Cayo Dave said...

It's a good time to buy property in Key West! Always has, always will be.

I'll leave the individual buying decisions up to each person, but it is not always a good time to buy. Realtors who loudly proclaimed this thinking during 2005-2008 were wrong as the market fell at least 30%. Since real estate historically appreciates at less than 5% a year (even less so with inflation), a 30% loss means it will take at least 6 years to break even.

"just don't think variations from 545k to 560k are drastic."

While it may not seem like much, if annualized it would equate to a 30% drop.

Anonymous said...

>>It's a good time to buy property in Key West! Always has, always will be.

Thank you for your incredible insight Mr. Realtor/Mortgage Broker/Builder/Seller.

Anonymous said...

typical doomer graphic. Note that the chart starts at 570k and drops steeply to 536k. The y-axis does not end at 0 but the creator of this graphic wants a dramatic effect. It's not even a 10% drop.

Anonymous said...

Zillow is your reference? Oh please - when will you learn Cayo Dave that you haven't the intelligence nor the experience to give an opinion on real estate in this market? Do you have a crystal ball? Or better yet, an advanced economic degree? No, just some blogger who can't buy a home so he convinces himself that it's ok to live at mom's house and post on the web that he is disgruntled and frustrated with his position in life. Grow up!

Cayo Dave said...

Zillow is your reference? Oh please - when will you learn Cayo Dave that you haven't the intelligence nor the experience to give an opinion on real estate in this market? Do you have a crystal ball? Or better yet, an advanced economic degree? No, just some blogger who can't buy a home so he convinces himself that it's ok to live at mom's house and post on the web that he is disgruntled and frustrated with his position in life. Grow up!
Actually, every metric you can look at shows the same thing - Key West real estate prices continue to fall. If you don't believe me, check the National Association of Realtors - they too predict more tough times ahead.
And apparently I do have enough experience & knowledge about markets to predict how real estate will perform. One year ago, while realtors were proclaiming in print "It is a great time to buy", I warned in this post.
And six months prior to that post, I warned of a housing bubble about to implode.
And over two years ago (February 20, 2006), at the very top of the real estate bubble, I warned that the real estate market was turning from bull to bear. In that post's comments, I also mentioned I am concerned that many homes are in the hands of "weak buyers" reliant on a rising market to bail them out before traditional mortgage terms kick in. Sideways pricing (or worse downward pricing) is creating an overhang in the marketplace that will likely restrain/depress prices until those properties are absorbed by "real" buyers..
So, yes, I have the intelligence and experience with markets to evaluate trends, analyze fundamentals, and project performance.

Anonymous said...

Hey Cayo - so you predicted? EVERYONE had the SAME PREDICTION! I am always amazed at how some people are so guilable to believe they actually came up with the idea that has been bantered about since real estate started its rise in the early 2000's. WHAT A LOAD OF CRAP you preach! Reminds me of Al Gore when he stated he invented the Internet. Full of yourself aren't you Cayo Crappo Dave!

Cayo Dave said...

Listen you demented fool, your ranting is senseless and wrong.
While I wrote my warnings about the real estate market, the National Assn. of Realtors predicted a rise in real estate prices in 2008. So "everyone" didn't have the same predication.
And plenty of people/investors/flippers bought during those warnings.
Al Gore definitely didn't invent the internet.
But you sir have definitely invented a new level of douche-dom.
Good luck with that.

Not Al Gore said...

Since the topic has been slightly changed already, I'll respond to the off-topic part of the discussion above:

Al Gore never said he "invented the internet", he correctly stated that back in the 80s he strongly drove the funding(in the Senate) for the consolidation of the goverment and research networks that became the internet.

Somebody else turned his statements about that into "Al Gore claims he invented the internet". Just another swift-boat case of twisting/inventing statements by good people into something negative....

Anonymous said...

The declines is only bringing the marginal properties closer to reality with the rest of the US home market. I am sure that there are many properties that are significantly overpriced because the sellers paid big bucks a few years ago on questionable mortages and are now trying to recoup there losses. The median house prices for the island are still 4-5 times that of the rest of the country(with significantly higher costs too.)

Anonymous said...

My question is - what happens to all these abandoned homes left vacant in Key West? You can't tell me there aren't squatters or that vandalism of these properties isn't going on. I am sure Key West home vacancy rates on these abandoned homes are alarmingly high. What happens to the homes just sitting there in disrepair with no maintenance like pool service or lawn care or just cleaning inside to prevent mold and mildew from spreading? Not all are being sold - so many are just left standing in neglect. The banks don't want them back especially if the properties sold on the lower end of the scale and the banks won't maintain or repair them either. The homeowners walked away so guess what? A glut of affordable dwellings for any homeless person or drug dealer to claim as long as no one knows, right? Great place to dump a dead body - in an abandoned home because who is going to check? And what about a house fire or a child playing in these unsafe homes? Yes, the whole foreclosure mess will become another blight on this city.

If Key West were smart (an oxymoron!), they would buy up these abandoned homes (for pennies on the dollar I bet, especially if used for charitable purposes) and use them for afordable housing. So many jobs could be established in refurbising the structures and so many would get a home they could take pride in but no, the City wants no parts of this idea. Too bad - there are a lot of homes in Smurf Village and elsewhere just waiting to be occupied by our workforce. It beats havimg these homes just sit and rot doesn't it?

Ben said...

Are there really that many unsupervised abandoned houses?

We keep looking and the prices keep getting better, but with insurance so up in the air it's hard to get excited about buying a place.

How many hurricanes will it take to wipe out citizens insurance? And what happens then? Will the feds bailout Florida?

Cayo Dave said...

We keep looking and the prices keep getting better, but with insurance so up in the air it's hard to get excited about buying a place.
I totally agree - the insurance situation is nuts.
As I understand it, hurricane insurance costs approximately 2% of the house's value per year. So, a $500,000 house would cost $10,000 per year in hurricane insurance. That alone is a tough number.
But with Citizen's current proposal to raise rates 104%, I would be very cautious about buying - unless you have the money to buy the house outright and forgo hurricane insurance.
I think we are still in a period where renting makes much more sense than owning.
Renters are frequently maligned for "throwing their money away". But owners will likely throw away even more: $10,000 per year insurance on a $500,000 house, plus 1% per year in taxes, plus mortgage interest, plus closing costs. Its hard to see how it makes financial sense.
Overpriced real estate is a sucker bet.

Anonymous said...

If you buy one of those workforce houses on Stock Island or Railway Condos in Key West that isn't a sucker bet. The buyer not only gets a nice home but there is a cap on insurance and taxes. Insurance on those workforce 3 bedroom homes on Stock Island is just $1500 per year for EVERYTHING and taxes are about $2000 per year. Granted you can only make 3% profit on your home each year but in return you are getting a brand new home with hurricane rated windows and doors and the luxury of owning and not renting. With prices at around $200K and up, you could actually pay less to own than to rent. Plus, you get tax breaks which no renter ever gets. Why rent when you can buy? Plus, the builders are working with the banks and mortgage loan people to get great rates for anyone who buys and can do so for little or no money down.

So Cayo Dave - why rent when you can own brand new at an affordable price? There isn't an argument to this scenario - a new home for less than I can rent the same!

Cayo Dave said...

So Cayo Dave - why rent when you can own brand new at an affordable price? There isn't an argument to this scenario - a new home for less than I can rent the same!
I agree with you - those affordable housing units are a good deal compared to renting.
Most everything outside that is a sucker bet.
If the real estate market continues to decline in price, which I think it will, then the affordable housing units may not look like such a good deal - especially with the deed restriction.
My post wasn't about the affordable units - it was about the free market units - which are still largely overpriced and glutting the market.

Anonymous said...

How bad can the abandoned homes be in Key West? And also, what about renters living in property that is in foreclosure? How does that affect the lease between renter and owner and do they get their security deposits back? I am just leary of renting if I don't know if the owner is about to go under. I bet there are a lot of potential renters about to be put on the street because they didn't know the situation with the landlord.

Anonymous said...

Don't kill the messenger. This isn't what Al Gore had in mind when he invented this vehicle of communication. The guy from "Love Story" could never have been so hateful. In general, prices have clearly dropped dramatically in the past couple of years. This doesn't mean there aren't still people fishing to see if someone bites at their overpriced listing.

Ben said...

How low does you income have to be to qualify for "affordable" housing anyway?

Anonymous said...

For Ben - I know that for the workforce housing at Islander Village (at the old drive-in on Stock Island that can be seen from the water) the income limits are:

For a 2-bedroom unit, an individual can make no more than $87,928 per year and a married couple can make no more than $117,237 per year.

For a 3-bedroom unit, an individual can make no more than $97,600 per year and a married couple can make no more than $130,133 per year.

These figures can only count the first 40 hours per week and overtime and bonus pay are not counted towards the final amount.

I got these figures from the paperwork I got for the Islander Village houses and the real estate office in charge of the sales of these units.

Anonymous said...

Oh and Islander Village units start at 239K for a 1 bedroom, $259,750 for a 2 bedroom 2.5 bath and a $289,750 for a 3 bedroom 2.5 bath and they have a shared community pool and some units have covered parking and they still have units available. No, I don't sell them but I am planning to move there. It's a great deal for us worker bees in Key West who want to own a property and plan to stay here in paradise.

Ben said...

well I would like to say I don't qualify but if business stays like this past year, I would probably make it

But at 259k is that really a great deal? Will it be a great in a year or two? There are quite a few places available in that price range now aren't there?

Anonymous said...

It's a great deal when you consider the taxes and insurance you will pay on those other homes in Key West that have fallen to the same price levels. There is no way anyone who buys a non-workforce home would be able to have the luxury of just $1500 in insurance a year or $2000 in taxes a year. Expect to pay more, much more for both - much more. Deed restrictions prevent insurance and taxes from being unafordable in these workforce units. Therefore, although you may pay a little less for a non-workforce home, in the long run you actually are paying more. The reason these units can offer such a great deal on insurance is that they are over and above the hurricane resistant requirements for 160+ mph winds and the insurance companies can offer great rates. Also, unless you have a deed restricted home, you won't have the tax cap advantage that will not increase (plus, if you homestead, you have another advantage). So yes, it is definately the best deal out there.

And don't go buying these lower priced and/or short sale homes expecting everything to be brand spanking new as in the workforce units. These short sales are just that - desparate homeowners needing to sell and many are in poor repair shape or even unlivable without major restoration work at additional costs.

No, for the money, work force houses are a great investment if you plan to stay and live in them. If you want to buy and renovate and flip I am afraid those days are over.

Anonymous said...

Those deed restricted homes are not good bets. Look at it this way: housing prices are falling off cliffs in Key West. The houses built by Ed Swift at the drive in theater start at $239,000 (it might be $249,000) for a one bedroom.

Here's what you are not telling folks:

1. Monroe County owns the land under these deed restricted homes Islander Village built by Swift, not the homeowner.

2. It is deed restricted for 99 years, meaning home prices SHOULD they appreciate (and today, the Case Schiller report shows a 10.7% drop yoy in median prices in the 20 Top cities in the USA)can only go up as fast as the CPI. Questions: what happens as deflation continues to erode home prices in Key West to where free market homes are cheaper than so-called "Affordable Housing"? Will Affordable Housing miraculously go up in price while everythigng else in town continues to slide? With free market home inventory exploding, and fewer buyers being qualified, tell us why Affordable Housing is a sure bet to go up while free market forces make everything else in town go down.

3. If you buy a deed restricted home, it must be your official residence. You cannot move into another home, keep your deed restricted home, and rent it out. You can, however, rent rooms to workmates as long as you stay in your deed restricted home. You, in essence, are a paying serf who cannot escape until you sell your "home".

4. If you improve your home with say granite coutertops or a marble bath, you CANNOT add the price of those embellishments to the home price should you want to sell. That trick went out the window with the lawsuit against the Realtor in Seaside Condos. This also means that people will be less enthusiastic in "upkeep" of their properties on the inside. Why spend $$$ on fixing cheesy fixtures like electric filament stoves when one burner goes out? Let the next buyer fix it. (P.S. All Ed Swift affordable homes have electric stoves, so if you are a gourmand, don't expect to cook as well as you can.)

5. Selling a deed restricted house could take months, nay, years in a market where free market housing is going belly up all over the island. Latest reports show 110 REO houses for sale in Key West alone. One of them, a Las Salinas one bedroom condo has a starting price of only $149,000. Elsewhere, in Smurf Village for instance, there are REOs selling for $50,000 less than the cheapest deed restricted home in Ed Swifts drive in theater project.

6. Deed restricted housing from Swift also carries hidden costs such as maintenance of the property.

7. Deed restricted housing also means you cannot erect flag poles, park work trucks, etc. outside your residence.

8. Deed restricted housing at the drive in theater is also blocked from clear views of the water: Swift is using the money generated from this project erect $1 million homes right on the water. In past projects, he erected million dollar homes first and then used up his ROGO credits mandated for cheaper "Affordable Housing". That's the trick he used all along: work as a hero erecting Affordable Housing, while using every last scrap of edgewater land to erect the really big and profitable monstrosities for the well to do. Oh, and always build walls between the filthy rich and the working class just to let people know where their place is.

9. Renting in a time of unprcedented Federal Reserve rescues of one Investment Banks (not in the Fed's mandate: they are owned privately by public commercial banks from around the world) tells you America is skating on thin ice. This housing crisis is going to get much worse. In fact, our entire economy is on the precipice of collapse if any of the $Trillion in counter party trades blow up at any one Investment Bank. If a Derviatives Time Bomb goes off, it will take down the entire financial system. Buying a home now, any home, in Key West is like playing Russian Roulette.

10. The best thing to do in grave times of uncertainity is to pay off all debts, buy in cash, conserve, cut expenses, buy gold and other PMs, wait out whatever happens. One sure thing is going to happen with the liquidity crisis, tightening credit standards for even good Credit Scores, and an inventory of homes which is not completely reported due to Lender and NAR chicanery: Housing is going to go nowhere for another 10, 20 years and maybe longer.

11. Lower taxes and lower insurance payments are not permanent.

The city and county governments are currently running large defecits and are looking for new ways to generate revenue while cutting services. Some of the people buying these "Affordable Homes" will soon be unemployed.

We are only one good hurricane away from the next Katrina like storm surge sending insurance rates up for all homeowners. Granted, everything is on stilts at Islander Village, and the windows are rated at 150MPH resistance, but what happens if we have one of those unthinkable "Black Swan" type of events in Hurricane form which brings ashore a 200 MPH hurricane? Who will want to buy your blown down modular housing which you insurance company is going to triple rates on?

Black swan events were supposed to be once in a lifetime. Now they are happening every month in our economy, from $100 oil, $1000 gold, and paragons of banking expertise going belly up.

Anonymous said...

Also, with these workforce units, closing costs are also limited. You can't say that for a regular priced home of equal value. Plus, you can get in a workforce house with little money down. With the short sale or foreclosure properties, you are at the mercy of the banks and lending agencies in charge of the loan. Pristine credit and a hefty downpayment is usually required - as much as 20% or more. And be prepared to wait while the bank or loan servicing center evaulates the contract which could have a price increase along the way if they decide the price was set too low.

Workforce houses also invite a sense of community. For Islander Village, a community center, a dog park, several other parks and a community pool are there to enjoy. These homes are built strong and are built strong to withstand hurricanes and some offer water views too. And to know that the guy next to you is a worker bee and not a squatter or a seasonal or long term renter (not allowed in workforce housing) or abandoned. This means everyone knows each other and that promotes community awareness and involvement.

I definatly think workforce housing has a lot of advantages overall.

Daniel said...

To all who own houses there and to all the people that let me sleep outside I'm just waiting to come back and snap up a few Be back soon if your selling,oh never mind I have my mind set on this one place,I knew this was going to Happen,finally good for me and bad for you,shucks.
jsinkeywest@gmail.com
aka future KW homeowner
the place I'm interested in was 1.75 yrs ago now I can come back for 600 right now hate to say I'm going to wait just a few longer.

Sally O'Boyle said...

When I left Key West Jan 2006, I was renting a 4 bedroom/2 bath 1800sf CBS house with a pool, central ac, brand new kitchen, laundry/utility room, big yard, off-street parking, in new town for $2,100/month. (That house is still renting for that same money to the tenant I put in there.)

Anytime something broke, I called the landlord who also paid the taxes and insurance. He fixed everything or let me fix it and deduct from the rent.

If I bought an affordable housing unit, what's the down-payment? What would the monthly payment be? I don't know the terms on that deal. But I'll bet with taxes and insurance, which is $300/month, it's similar money, all told.

And you don't own the land? You pay all maintenance? You can't sell at market price when you sell? Who got the better deal? I did, no question.

I still manage rental property in Key West. Rental prices are dropping. I'll bet I could rent the same thing for around $1500 now. Probably newer, too.

We predicted the correction for a few years. No one else did. NO ONE. Everyone pointed and laughed at us. Other realtors wanted us to shut up, then blamed us when prices did start to drop. Ridiculous.

Prices will drop further. Everything returns to the mean... i-m-not-so-h-o.

Anonymous said...

Sally, a realtor, who didn't own property? I find that hard to believe, especially as the Monroe County tax roles and the county records proves this to be a LIE! Face it Sally, you lived on Flagler Avenue in a flooded out CBS dump and left for crime ridden Costa Rica as an ex-pat. Now you have sour grapes as you can't return. Rents are going up on the island as those in the foreclosure and short sale termoil have to live somewhere and there are fewer and fewer decent rentals left. Now you are still trying to stay in the loop in Key West when actually you need to get a life in your new country.

I think if you plan to stay and live in an affordable workforce housing it's a good deal. And with more foreclosures on the island, those market rate houses are in for a huge tax increase as less and less homeowners will need to make up the loss. All those empty homes won't be paying into the pool and you know everyone will have a huge tax increse in the coming years. Everyone EXCEPT those in capped affordable units. Those taxes DO NOT increase like market rate homes - nor can the insurance increase on these homes either.

A good deal overall IF you plan to stay and live in them. Real estate is not for flipping, it's for living.

Anonymous said...

Some of those Seaside townhome units are affordable and sold out immediately. I know several homeowners there who are quite happy paying less than $1000 per year in taxes and very low insurance rates. So they have a 99-year lease on the land- they still got a great low mortgage (less than renting a similar sized place) and some even got home equity lines and are quite happy with their purchases. They are our workforce - bank tellers, govt. workers, teachers, secretaries, every one a local. They love the amentities like a pool and gated community. They love the fact that they are able to live and work in Key West and own something for less than any rental with the same luxuries.

Yes, you could buy a market rate home that has dropped to near the price of these affordable units but why? Why pay more in taxes? Why pay more in insurance? Why pay more in fees? Why live in an abandoned neighborhood where all your neighbors are in foreclosure ot better yet next to an abandoned home full of mold and falling apart from lack of maintenance? And most of all, why would you not want a brand new home with all the bells and whistles that these affordable homes provide? If I lived in one and wanted to upgrade, what's wrong with that? I would put in anything I wanted from granite to tile to hardwood because I was going to LIVE in it - not to flip like everyone here seems to think that is what real estate is for. I would make any upgrades for ME - afterall, I am the one living in it not the next guy.

And the last thing - these affordable units are a lot easier to buy than those market rate properties. With little or no money down and less money needed a closing what makes it such a bad deal? With these short sale and foreclosure homes, you need at least 20-30% or more to put down, superior credit (the banks aren't lending like they used to). Why would you go through the hassles of buying a short sale only to find out a closing the lending bank says no or that the loan center holding the foreclosed property has decided to raise the price? You would be SOL and then what?

My friends in the Seaside affordables didn't need a hefty amount of cash to purchase and there are banks that are working with the locals to buy these properties - can you say that about those short sale properties? I am sick and tired of all the complaining about affordable units on this board.

Anonymous said...

When I read that a realtor thinks workforce housing is a bad deal I know it's a good thing. Think about it - they don't get the commission and they would rather you buy from them than from the county. I don't trust realtors especially with the current housing situation.

Buying a house is buying a place to live and not for future equity to tap. If you think it is for you, go for it, buy a workforce unit. It may be the only way to save our locals from leaving the island if they can own a piece of Key West without the outrageous price tag.

Anonymous said...

Affordable Housing is socialism, not capitalism. Giving a list of the type of people buying Affordable Housing is simply listing the blue collar workers who yet again are entering into a contract which they fully don't comprehend.

The people who benefit most from Affordable Housing are the developers.

Meanwhile, rents are coming down all over Key West and someone in this thread claims rents are going up. Give us all a break. You must be a Realtor who believes in the crap Yun is pumping out at the national NAR level.

I've never seen more rentals in my life in Key West. You can rent a house at the Golf Club for $1500 today, and two years ago the same house was renting for $2200.

You can buy homes and condos at the Golf Club, Las Salinas, Smurf Village and elsewhere for less than an Affordable Housing unit which is not going to appreciate at all during these times of declining real estate.

Buying an Affordable Housing unit is bascially ensuring you'll be upside down on your loan in the near future.

As outside housing continues to decrease in price, people wanting to sell their deed restricted housing will learn soon enough that Housing Prices - even in Affordable Housing Units - don't always go up with inflation.

Caveat emptor.

Anonymous said...

Oh, and let me respond to this paragraph:

And the last thing - these affordable units are a lot easier to buy than those market rate properties. With little or no money down and less money needed a closing what makes it such a bad deal? With these short sale and foreclosure homes, you need at least 20-30% or more to put down, superior credit (the banks aren't lending like they used to). Why would you go through the hassles of buying a short sale only to find out a closing the lending bank says no or that the loan center holding the foreclosed property has decided to raise the price? You would be SOL and then what?


Ed Swift and developers do not arrange your financing. You do that on your own. And this No Money Down game you claim to be alive and kicking? Try it out on your own. You know what you will get if you have clean credit? An ARM for the first 5 "Teaser" years.

With rates approaching zero again, with the US Dollar in the toilet, with investment banks, commerical banks, hedge funds, mortgage lenders, et al blowing up throughout our nation, rates will have only one way to go from here: UP.

We can't monetize debt in this country any longer. The Piper must be paid. The country is a Banana Republic in debt to foreigners who are buying up our assets such as turnpikes, airports and the like for pennies on the dollar.

Anybody going for a no money down loan in times like these is stupider than anyone who reads and puts to work advice found in a Regina Corcoran column in the Key West Birdcage Liner. Corcoran is a shill for lenders/contractors/Realtors/Appraisers and the like because she is all of the above. In early 2006, mind you, she was telling you to take out your credit cards and use them to find a down payment of a home. Do you know how crazy that advice was now that banks have jacked up late fees, and rates on credit cards because of the credit crisis carnage?

The Realtors who pushed people to "buy now because there has never been a better time to buy" in 2005, 2006, 2007 and now 2008 are just like the insiders at Enron who sold their stock while assuring the rank and file to hold onto their shares.

Sally O' Boyle was the only Realtor I know who got this Housing Crash right way back when. You can try all you want to besmirch her by saying, "When I read that a realtor thinks workforce housing is a bad deal I know it's a good thing. Think about it - they don't get the commission and they would rather you buy from them than from the county. I don't trust realtors especially with the current housing situation" but your illogic doesn't hold up.

A Realtor might make a commission on free market housing, but it is the developers and their families who make beacoup bucks off unwise wage earners when they buy cheap ass modular housing slapped together in a factory up North, shipped to the Keys, and assembled on earth owned by the County and which the supposed "homeowner" should be grateful for simply because they qualify to purchase the "home" in a controlled buy.

All you're doing is enabling a bunch of middle class Americans to keep from thinking for themselves, to perpetuate the lie that developers have the best interests of the working man and woman at theart.

Just look at the current MLS listings. There are at least 100 condos or homes which cost less or the same as anything in Islander Village.

If you take time to do the math, and you take time to observe and start your own database of disappearing and then reappearing listings for much less than what they were just a few months ago, you can come to only one conclusion: Key West housing and rents have a long, long way to fall.

This is only the beginning.

Cash and savings are king when assets like housing are in deflationary mode.

And for God's sake, why would anyone be encouraged to take out a suicidal ARM to buy a depreciating asset during times like these?

Anonymous said...

You can't purchase a workforce or affordable home with anything but a 30-year fixed loan and you have to have the 3% or more to qualify for a loan from any of the recommended banks.

Do a little homework before you spout off about ARM's and workforce housing - you can't use these bogus loans for these units.

Anonymous said...

You can't purchase a workforce or affordable home with anything but a 30-year fixed loan and you have to have the 3% or more to qualify for a loan from any of the recommended banks.

Do a little homework before you spout off about ARM's and workforce housing - you can't use these bogus loans for these units.



You are absolutely, positively 100% wrong. First State Bank pushed a 5 yr. ARM which would reset into a fixed loan for an Islander Village home. This was even with 10% down. (I actually could put down 20%, but I was playing along with the bank manager to see what he was going to recommend.)

I still have the quotes from First State Bank. So, you need to learn more about so called Affordable Housing, bub, before you send naive people off to certain bloodsucking lenders.

Lastly, Dennis Miller up at Amerimortgage specializes in VA loans. You ever hear of them? You don't need any money down with an okayed VA loan for Affordable Housing. Dennis, as far as I know, is the only person on the Island working with Veterans as the commissions on VA loans are much smaller.

Get your facts straight and then get back to us with some more of your disinformation and misinformation. You don't fool us.

Anonymous said...

I am ABSOLUTELY POSITIVELY RIGHT as I work in the industry and work with the affordable workforce housing. I know YOU CAN'T BUY WORKFORCE HOUSING WITH ANYTHING BUT A CONVENTIONAL 30-YEAR LOAN!

Call Orion Bank - Call Keys Federal Credit Union - Call Location 3 Real Estate who is the listing agents for both Railway and Islander - Call the Housing Authority office who are in charge of the SHIP loans which many buyers are using - but DON'T LISTEN TO THE FOOL WHO THINKS AN ARM CAN BE USED FOR AFFORDABLE HOUSING!

Why must 15 year olds living at home with mother continue to plague this board?

QUIT POSTING LIES ABOUT AFFORDABLE HOUSING - You haven't a CLUE about how 99 year leaseholds work let alone how mortgages work with workforce housing.

If you think you know so much, tell me what idiot told you that you can use an ARM to buy these properties?

YOU CAN'T BECAUSE IT ISN'T TRUE!

WHAT A LOSER!

Anonymous said...

What a dumb idiot!
NO LENDER WOULD EVER TELL YOU THIS!

You CAN NOT use VA loans on a 99 year leased property! YOU MUST OWN the property to us a VA loan! You can't use your 'certificate of eligibility' on anything but a residence you plan to live in AND you own the LAND!

THIS JUST SHOWS THAT THE POSTER WHO THINKS YOU CAN USE AN ARM OR ANY OTHER LOAN THAN A 30-YEAR HAS LIED!
LIED!
LIED!
TO THIS BOARD!

WHAT A LOSER! Get back on your meds and QUIT ANNOYING PEOPLE!

HOW MANY BRAIN CELLS DO YOU HAVE LEFT?

WHY MUST YOU POST YOUR LIES ON THIS BOARD?

www.va.org if you don't believe me!

EEEEEEEEESSSSSSSSSSHHHHHHH! WHAT KIND OF CRAP GETS POSTED ON THIS BOARD!

Cayo Dave said...

WHAT KIND OF CRAP GETS POSTED ON THIS BOARD!
Nearly all kinds of crap is posted - your's included.
Seriously, my hope is that comments give people an opportunity to voice their opinions and debate their veracity.

Anonymous said...

Thanks Cayo Dave!

Now for a real question - what about PMI? I understand that it is almost impossible to get private mortgage insurance anymore as credit and banks are tightening their lending strategies. Therefore, must every buyer have 20% down or more to buy property these days?

What's the scoop on PMI now?

Anonymous said...

There is no "Dennis Miller" at Amerimortgage (and Amerirealty) - that's DOUGLAS Miller (you may know him from his frequent jogs around town in red hat and red short) and his business partner is - lo and behold - REGINA CORCORAN of the Key West Citizen real estate column that has been mentioned quite unfavorably on this board!

You got caught in the LIES!

Ha!

And he knows NOTHING about VA LOANS - it is NOT his speciality! You need a true VA LOAN SPECIALIST to deal with the MASSIVE amounts of paperwork and home qualifications needed. It is extremely hard to do VA loans in the FL Keys - not impossible - but very difficult. But you MUST OWN THE LAND not in a deed or 99 year lease trust.

Glad to see the poster who LIED has showed how STUPID he really is!

Anonymous said...

First State Bank is about half way down the list of recommended banks for workforce housing at Islander Village or Railway. It isn't surprising that they don't know a thing on how to deal with these mortgages.

Amerimortgage/Amerirealty IS NOT recommened as they do not have the expertise in these loans. Everyone interested in workforce housing is given a list of banks and insurance people to deal with - a huge list of people who can put you on the path to homeownership.

To the poster touting his conversations with First State Bank and Amerimortgage/Amerirealty: If you REALLY talked to FSB, you would know this. If you REALLY were interested in these properties (which I doubt) and yu REALLY spoke to someone about a mortgage (which I doubt) you would know this.

As far as I can tell, you are just posting fabrications to get a rise out of the posters on this board. All I can say is get a life.

Gidget said...

Real estate is in trouble everywhere. Everyone is seeing the problems across the planet. Take a look at what is happening in England for example. As for Costa Rica at least you get a good afternoon and you do not have to worry about school shootings. And the children are not all on anti-depressants. One can live in C.R. for a lot less and have a very nice quality of life. Something that can not be said for Key West. The last time I was there from C.R. I saw the worst case of police brutality I have ever seen. Paradise is where you make it. Great blog so why all the anger? Why not do something constructive to help save what is left of the middle class as in writting someone that cares or not doing business with the elite? Make love not war..............

Anonymous said...

Gimleteye writes:

http://eyeonmiami.blogspot.com

"Key West, could you be any dumber?"

bikeman said...

Where can I get one of those cool red hats, I want to be DOUGLAS Miller for fantasy fest?

Ray Brickman said...

We need to find a new strategy in order to improve our real estate business.